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as well. pat. >> dr. brzezinski, let me talk to you about pakistan. powers flu out, richard nixon tilted, doctor brzezinski was over there looking down the pass. they were a great ally in the cold war. now it looks like we have lost pakistan. have we lost pakistan? if so, why and was it inevitable. >> i think we are losing pakistan. i don't know if we have lost it yet. if we disengage intelligently and engage in the umbrella i have been talking about, her happens we will lose it all together. i think the fault is two way. first of all, we have never been really consistently and comprehensively sensitive to the political interests in having a secure backyard in afghanistan. we just haven't. resently, we played with indi s indians. we give a super nuclear deal to the indians. we did not give it to the pakistanis. there's resentment there. pakistan is coming undone on its own. it's not all our undoing. there's a conflict between the army and society at large. divisions between the army and the military and intelligence. ethnic differences. regional differences in pakistan. plus, this overw
is occurring in yemen? >> pakistan is probably larger than any of them. afghanistan is a distraction. one thing about afghanistan, when you had the attacks on the hotel, it went back to vietnam. it's a reminder the people we are working with in afghanistan, given what they get out of pakistan, they will not be able to turn the corner. we continue to invest enormously there. >> howard dean? >> afghanistan, because of the leadership there, no matter what we do, it doesn't matter. karzai is hopeless. i'm more optimistic. if you look at it over many, many years, tunisia is a bright star. egypt is not going to be a democracy in the way we know it. yemen is a huge problem. libya, who knows. i think there's progress that's been made here. i agree there's a lot of countries not making progress. syria, who knows what's going to happen. there will be real gains. >> i kind of agree with governor dean. in yemen, if we have what you describe, the potential for ungovernable state, it will become a petri dish of groups. they may be highly dysfunctional, but not failed. how does the u.s. not send some kind of
afghanistan, pakistan. you're reading a couple pieces in the "new york times." now it's spreading to all of these different countries and one that really jumped off the page for me, drone attacks in somalia. >> joining us, jeremy scahill, on the cia secret sites in somalia, jeremy, the secret training programs and secret prisons out of somalia is part of your reporting there. how big a threat are these terrorist group there's? >> we should say first of all president obama campaigned on a promise to go up against these bush era policies declaring war on the world, running secret sites, torturing prisoners. deeply involved in an underground dungeon officially run by the somali national security agency, but their salaries are paid by the cia directly. in fact, one somali agent described thousand hairli ed ho and paid by u.s. agents and the u.s. is interrogating prisoners, including those rendered by the kenyan government, snatched off the streets in nairobi based on u.s. intelligence and taken to this secret prison and interrogated. it goes against the president's ordered he signed in janua
Search Results 0 to 3 of about 4 (some duplicates have been removed)